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-   -   Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=214182)

Kahlil Gibran 12-19-2007 07:55 PM
Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:00pm EST

By Thomas Ferraro

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Congress, prodded by the deadliest shooting rampage in modern American history, passed legislation on Wednesday designed to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill.

Without objection, the Senate and House of Representatives approved the measure, which would bolster background checks for gun buyers, and sent it to President George W. Bush to sign.

The measure would be the first major new gun-control law in more than a decade. It was drafted after a deranged gunman killed himself and 32 others in April at Virginia Tech university.

The product of months of talks, the bill was finally agreed to as lawmakers prepared to wrap up their work for the year and head home for the holidays.

"Together, we have crafted a bill that will prevent gun violence, but maintain the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens" to bear arms, said Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York, a chief sponsor of the bill. Her husband was killed and son injured in 1993 when a gunman opened fire on a train.

The 4 million-member National Rifle Association, which has helped stop numerous gun-control bills as one of the nation's most powerful pro-gun lobbying groups, backed this one.

"This is good public policy," said NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam.

Americans are among the world's most heavily armed people, and the country has one of the world's highest murder rates.

There are an estimated 250 million privately owned guns in the United States, which has a population of about 300 million. About 30,000 people a year die from gun wounds.

Congress has long been reluctant to tackle the politically explosive issue of gun control. But it did so after it was disclosed that the Virginia Tech gunman had once been deemed by a judge to be dangerous and the information never reached a background check system for gun buyers.

The legislation would provide financial incentives for states to provide mental health and criminal records to a database used for federal background checks on gun buyers.

UPDATING DATABASE

The 1968 Gun Control Act prohibits anyone found by a court to be "a mental defective" from possessing a gun. It also bars felons, fugitives, drug addicts and wife beaters.

But because of state privacy laws and fiscal restraints, most states have failed to fully report such records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.

McCarthy said: "Today, we are one step closer to making sure the National Instant Background Check System does what it was it was designed to do -- keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons, individuals subjected to restraining orders, those charged with domestic violence and individuals deemed mentally ill by a court of law."

The House initially passed such a bill in June. But the Senate refused to go along with it until a few changes were made. One would require the government to pay legal fees if a person who claims to have been wrongly listed in the background system wins an appeal.

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat and a sponsor of the bill, said: "Nothing can bring back the lives tragically lost at Virginia Tech, and no legislation can be a panacea, but the bill we pass today will begin to repair and restore our faith in the NICS system and may help prevent similar tragedies in the future."

:confused_ma: Forget about going for Marriage Counseling now or admiting you smoked that joint in college.

sluggo 12-19-2007 08:07 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Sneaky bastards. The GOA has been fighting this bill for a long time, figures the Senate would rush it through. One step closer to losing the right to keep and bear.

Tn...Andy 12-19-2007 08:31 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
"Together, we have crafted a bill that will prevent gun violence, but maintain the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens" to bear arms, said Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York, a chief sponsor of the bill. Her husband was killed and son injured in 1993 when a gunman opened fire on a train.


If she was so pro 2nd amendment, she would help get a carry law passed in NY so people might have the chance to prevent what happened to her husband in he Long Island RR shooting.

sluggo 12-19-2007 08:35 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
The 4 million-member National Rifle Association, which has helped stop numerous gun-control bills as one of the nation's most powerful pro-gun lobbying groups, backed this one.

"This is good public policy," said NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam.
If you are not shredding your NRA membership card right now, there is something wrong with you.

gunner 12-19-2007 08:39 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tn...Andy (Post 882829)
"Together, we have crafted a bill that will prevent gun violence, but maintain the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens" to bear arms, said Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York, a chief sponsor of the bill. Her husband was killed and son injured in 1993 when a gunman opened fire on a train.


If she was so pro 2nd amendment, she would help get a carry law passed in NY so people might have the chance to prevent what happened to her husband in he Long Island RR shooting.

She doesn't even understand the legislation that she helps to write - logic doesn't apply here.

Fullpower 12-19-2007 08:40 PM
you reference a spurious statistic: "30,000 gunshot deaths per year"

is that worldwide?

J.D.Rockinfeller 12-19-2007 09:45 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Big surprize.....homeland security was "visiting" the mall that day......HMMM....wonder where all those security tapes were?...no doubt it was ONE shooter with ONE gun....thats what they WANT us to believe ,right?...they would NEVER lie to us :rolleyes_m: ill believe the official story when ALL the security tapes are made PUBLIC.
This was all planned...the legislation was already written up, past commitee, and waiting to be signed:wink:....and it normally takes MONTHS to get the ball rolling on a bill....:thumpdown:thumpdown

gunner 12-19-2007 09:48 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.D.Rockinfeller (Post 882942)
Big surprize.....homeland security was "visiting" the mall that day......HMMM....wonder where all those security tapes were?...no doubt it was ONE shooter with ONE gun....thats what they WANT us to believe ,right?...they would NEVER lie to us :rolleyes_m: ill believe the official story when ALL the security tapes are made PUBLIC.
This was all planned...the legislation was already written up, past commitee, and waiting to be signed:wink:....and it normally takes MONTHS to get the ball rolling on a bill....:thumpdown:thumpdown
Alfred Murrah Building - Oklahoma City !!!!

Clinton's domestic terrirism bill flies through the House

Mumwaldee 12-19-2007 10:00 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
..................

J.D.Rockinfeller 12-19-2007 10:07 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunner (Post 882949)
Alfred Murrah Building - Oklahoma City !!!!

Clinton's domestic terrirism bill flies through the House
....just like the patriot act...yeah, i see a pattern.

Abouthadit 12-19-2007 10:21 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
the cowards passed it on a voice vote meaning not recorded. Unless I am mistaken there is no record of the yeas/nays. They are off the hook unless you call each office. then they could just lie. Congress is the biggest bunch of Fkn losers ever in the history of Fkn losers. Now all of us can be diagnosed with some kind of mysterious mental disease and have our weapons confiscated. Yeah, right. as mtnman is fond of saying: time to use them for what they was made for.

Krugerrand 12-19-2007 10:23 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo (Post 882784)
Sneaky bastards. The GOA has been fighting this bill for a long time, figures the Senate would rush it through.
And figures the NRA would support it. Sons of bitches.

J.D.Rockinfeller 12-19-2007 10:25 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krugerrand (Post 883016)
And figures the NRA would support it. Sons of bitches.
they have "sheenie" runnung it ,what do you expect?

RiverRat 12-19-2007 11:07 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
:shocked_ma: That is not the bad part.

Now the definition of mentally ill can be interpreted by law as anyone who disagrees with the party line.

You don't watch American Idol ?

"Well then,you must be either mentally deranged or antisocial...approval denied."

If the guidelines and requirements are left up to the individual states it would only be a matter of months before people will see their right to buy firearms completely denied.

Ammo is next...bet on it.
The NRA sold out a long time ago...they are now part of the problem,not the solution.


BOHICA

:bear_w00t::bear_w00t::bear_w00t:

Onboard 12-19-2007 11:51 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Pretty interesting read from the NY Times. Figures are from 2004 the latest year available. Neat graphic
with bullets depicting the 81 average gun deaths per day and their age groups.

According to this 1,825 were accidents/legal police action. Thank goodness for tasers or the yearly death
total could sky rocket. "I said license NOW!" Bang! bang! See what I mean?

16,425 were suicides. The suicides alone are over half the official (25,569) gun deaths. Approximate of course.

I wonder what the count is for justifiable homicide? Bad guy breaks into your house and you plug him.
That would count as one but we can't tell from this graph what the number is.

I also wonder what the count is for gang members killing other gang members?
I'm sure their (gang bangers) guns are procured through legal channels and thorough background checks.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...H_GRAPHIC.html#

twenty4karat 12-20-2007 12:23 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sluggo (Post 882835)
If you are not shredding your NRA membership card right now, there is something wrong with you.
I shredded mine in 1982!

Check out the 'Second Amendment Foundation' @ http://www.saf.org/

Maranatha,

:smile:

twenty4karat 12-20-2007 12:32 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abouthadit (Post 883011)
the cowards passed it on a voice vote meaning not recorded. Unless I am mistaken there is no record of the yeas/nays. They are off the hook unless you call each office. then they could just lie. Congress is the biggest bunch of Fkn losers ever in the history of Fkn losers. Now all of us can be diagnosed with some kind of mysterious mental disease and have our weapons confiscated. Yeah, right. as mtnman is fond of saying: time to use them for what they was made for.
In this case we need to assume that they all vocal voted. Let them know that unless they can prove to you (in writing) that they had nothing to do with it, you're going to assume that they did vote for it.

Maranatha,

:smile:

twenty4karat 12-20-2007 12:38 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onboard (Post 883133)
Pretty interesting read from the NY Times. Figures are from 2004 the latest year available. Neat graphic
with bullets depicting the 81 average gun deaths per day and their age groups.

According to this 1,825 were accidents/legal police action. Thank goodness for tasers or the yearly death
total could sky rocket. "I said license NOW!" Bang! bang! See what I mean?

16,425 were suicides. The suicides alone are over half the official (25,569) gun deaths. Approximate of course.

I wonder what the count is for justifiable homicide? Bad guy breaks into your house and you plug him.
That would count as one but we can't tell from this graph what the number is.

I also wonder what the count is for gang members killing other gang members?
I'm sure their (gang bangers) guns are procured through legal channels and thorough background checks.

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/20...H_GRAPHIC.html#
Share this with your anti gun family and friends:


Maranatha,

:smile:

Onboard 12-20-2007 12:59 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty4karat (Post 883177)
Share this with your anti gun family and friends:

Amazon.com: More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun-Control Laws: Books: John R. Lott Jr.

Maranatha,

:smile:


Thanks for the link. My youngest son (my happy surprise) is already familiar with Gran'pa Jack. Got some literature once from Fred. The Fred with the M14 stocks out of Shot Gun News.

What I haven't done yet is cut up the NRA card :banghead: they'll not get another cent from me though. Should have already join GOA.

Onboard 12-20-2007 01:17 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Amen Elijah, concerning your thoughts on the NRA.

skirnir 12-20-2007 01:33 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
So which of my multiple personalities would be barred from gun ownership if I visit a shrink?

A. The one that got a 3,67 GPA
B. The one that gets a hard-on from torturing animals
C. The one that likes to sneak up on people, pass SBDs, and walk away http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/7...twistedtz9.gif

(full disclosure: the only personality I have is unified A and C)

buff01 12-20-2007 02:47 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
just an excuse to keep more secret lists of gun owners. sickening.

sluggo 12-20-2007 05:44 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Well, not everybody said yes.

Quote:
Mr. Speaker, I rise in opposition to H.R. 2640, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) Improvement Amendments Act, and I urge caution.

In my opinion, H.R. 2640 is a flagrantly unconstitutional expansion of restriction on the exercise of the right to bear arms protected under the Second Amendment.

H.R. 2640 also seriously undermines the privacy rights of all Americans-gun owners and non-gun owners alike-by creating and expanding massive federal government databases, including medical and other private records of every American.

H.R. 2640 illustrates how placing restrictions on the exercise of one right-in this case, the right to bear arms-inevitably leads to expanded restriction on other rights as well. In an effort to make the Brady background check on gun purchases more efficient, H.R. 2640 pressures states and mandates federal agencies to dump massive amounts of information about the private lives of all Americans into a central federal government database.

Among the information that must be submitted to the database are medical, psychological, and drug treatment records that have traditionally been considered protected from disclosure under the physician-patient relationship, as well as records related to misdemeanor domestic violence. While supporters of H.R. 2640 say that there are restrictions on the use of this personal information, such restrictions did not stop the well-publicized IRS and FBI files privacy abuses by both Democratic and Republican administrations. Neither have such restrictions prevented children from being barred from flights because their names appeared on the massive terrorist watch list. We should not trick ourselves into believing that we can pick and choose which part of the Bill of Rights we support.

I urge my colleagues to join me in opposing this bill.

Mr. Speaker, in addition, the NICS Improvement Amendments Act illustrates how laws creating new infringements on liberty often also impose large financial burdens on taxpayers. In just its first three years of operation, the bill authorizes new yearly spending of $375 million plus additional spending ''as may be necessary.'' This new spending is not offset by any decrease in other government spending.
Dr. Ron Paul's lone statement of opposition.

extremist 12-20-2007 07:25 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Did anyone here actually read the final passed bill, especially the changes made to its objectionable earlier versions? In particular, the current language at least seems to include a means of quick appeals and prevention of trouble due to obsolete data. I don't see how the latest iteration can be worse than the present NICS -- so if you haven't shredded your NRA card prior to 1998, there doesn't seem to be a new reason to do so.

Krugerrand 12-20-2007 07:27 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Paul in his statement
In just its first three years of operation, the bill authorizes new yearly spending of $375 million plus additional spending ''as may be necessary.'' This new spending is not offset by any decrease in other government spending.
Damn it, this stuff makes me sick. One man up there speaking out against this crap, alone.

As one of 435, he can't do much, it seems, when he's surrounded by thieves and turncoats, but once he's president, he'll be able to VETO shit like this.

Anyone know whether Bush has signed it, yet? I don't see any reason to doubt that he will, knowing him. :rant:

sluggo 12-20-2007 07:39 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremist (Post 883342)
Did anyone here actually read the final passed bill, especially the changes made to its objectionable earlier versions? In particular, the current language at least seems to include a means of quick appeals and prevention of trouble due to obsolete data. I don't see how the latest iteration can be worse than the present NICS -- so if you haven't shredded your NRA card prior to 1998, there doesn't seem to be a new reason to do so.
Except that the appeals system that was supposed to be created years ago, has been stymied countless times by the same people who conspired with the NRA to pass this bill. There is little reason to believe that they will make good on it now.

Goldfinger 12-20-2007 09:37 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Well I hope all you NRA members are satisfied with the result. Personally, I wish I had made copies of my old membership card so at times like these I could have the satisfaction of watching it burn all over again...<!-- / message -->

Kahlil Gibran 12-20-2007 09:40 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldfinger (Post 883456)
Well I hope all you NRA members are satisfied with the result. Personally, I wish I had made copies of my old membership card so at times like these I could have the satisfaction of watching it burn all over again...<!-- / message -->
http://www.jewishjournal.com/home/preview.php?id=14570

wallew 12-20-2007 02:03 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Well, THANK GOD. Now we can all relax and know that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS HERE TO PROTECT US!!

==================

H.R. 2640: NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007
To improve the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, and for other purposes.
<TABLE class=maintabstrip cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="98%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=maintabstriptab_active id=tab_main_tab onmouseover="DHTML_TextHilight('tab_main_tab'); return true;" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" onclick=" document.location = '/congress/bill.xpd?tab=main&bill=h110-2640' " onmouseout="DHTML_TextRestore('tab_main_tab'); return true;" width="20%" classNameOld="maintabstriptab_active">Overview
</TD><TD class=maintabstriptab id=tab_summary_tab onmouseover="DHTML_TextHilight('tab_summary_tab'); return true;" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" onclick=" document.location = '/congress/bill.xpd?tab=summary&bill=h110-2640' " onmouseout="DHTML_TextRestore('tab_summary_tab'); return true;" width="20%" classNameOld="maintabstriptab">http://www.govtrack.us/media/stock_right-16_faded.gif</IMG>Summary
</TD><TD class=maintabstriptab id=tab_amendments_tab onmouseover="DHTML_TextHilight('tab_amendments_tab '); return true;" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" onclick=" document.location = '/congress/bill.xpd?tab=amendments&bill=h110-2640' " onmouseout="DHTML_TextRestore('tab_amendments_tab' ); return true;" width="20%">http://www.govtrack.us/media/stock_right-16_faded.gif</IMG>Amendments
</TD><TD class=maintabstriptab id=tab_speeches_tab onmouseover="DHTML_TextHilight('tab_speeches_tab') ; return true;" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" onclick=" document.location = '/congress/bill.xpd?tab=speeches&bill=h110-2640' " onmouseout="DHTML_TextRestore('tab_speeches_tab'); return true;" width="20%" classNameOld="maintabstriptab">http://www.govtrack.us/media/stock_right-16_faded.gif</IMG>Floor Speeches
</TD><TD class=maintabstriptab id=tab_other_tab onmouseover="DHTML_TextHilight('tab_other_tab'); return true;" style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" onclick=" document.location = '/congress/bill.xpd?tab=other&bill=h110-2640' " onmouseout="DHTML_TextRestore('tab_other_tab'); return true;" width="20%" classNameOld="maintabstriptab">http://www.govtrack.us/media/stock_right-16_faded.gif</IMG>Other Info
</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=maintabstriptop colSpan=5></TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=maintabstripbody colSpan=5>Bill Status

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=8 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=lh>Sponsor:</TD><TD>Rep. Carolyn McCarthy [D-NY]show cosponsors (17)
Cosponsors [as of 2007-12-20]
Rep. Timothy Bishop [D-NY]
Rep. Frederick Boucher [D-VA]
Rep. Lois Capps [D-CA]
Rep. Michael Castle [R-DE]
Del. Donna Christensen [D-VI]
Rep. John Dingell [D-MI]
Rep. Rahm Emanuel [D-IL]
Rep. Nita Lowey [D-NY]
Rep. Dennis Moore [D-KS]
Rep. James Moran [D-VA]
Rep. William Pascrell [D-NJ]
Rep. Mike Ross [D-AR]
Rep. Janice Schakowsky [D-IL]
Rep. Christopher Shays [R-CT]
Rep. Brad Sherman [D-CA]
Rep. Lamar Smith [R-TX]
Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz [D-FL]
Cosponsorship information sometimes is out of date. Why?

</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=lh>Bill Text:</TD><TD>Summaries (CRS)
Full Text
</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=lh>Status:</TD><TD><TABLE><TBODY><TR style="COLOR: #008800"><TD>http://www.govtrack.us/media/checkmark.gif</IMG></TD><TD><NOBR>Introduced</NOBR></TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 1em; FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: #333333"><NOBR>Jun 11, 2007</NOBR></TD></TR><TR style="COLOR: #008800"><TD>http://www.govtrack.us/media/checkmark.gif</IMG></TD><TD><NOBR>Amendments (1 proposed) [details]</NOBR></TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 1em; FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: #333333"><NOBR></NOBR></TD></TR><TR style="COLOR: #008800"><TD>http://www.govtrack.us/media/checkmark.gif</IMG></TD><TD><NOBR>Passed House [details]</NOBR></TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 1em; FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: #333333"><NOBR>Jun 13, 2007</NOBR></TD></TR><TR style="COLOR: #008800"><TD>http://www.govtrack.us/media/checkmark.gif</IMG></TD><TD><NOBR>Passed Senate</NOBR></TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 1em; FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: #333333"><NOBR>Dec 19, 2007</NOBR></TD></TR><TR style="COLOR: #777777"><TD>http://www.govtrack.us/media/box.gif</IMG></TD><TD><NOBR>Signed by President</NOBR></TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 1em; FONT-SIZE: 75%; COLOR: #333333"><NOBR>-</NOBR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Having passed in both the House and Senate, this bill now awaits the signature of the President before becoming law. [Last Updated: Dec 19, 2007]
</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=lh><NOBR>Last Action:</NOBR></TD><TD>Dec 19, 2007: Cleared for White House.
Show All Related Votes
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Votes on Passage

<TABLE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 1em"><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD>Jun 13, 2007: This bill passed in the House of Representatives by voice vote. A record of each representative's position was not kept. </TD><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 1em"><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD>Dec 19, 2007: This bill passed in the Senate by Unanimous Consent. A record of each representative's position was not kept. </TD><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Related Legislation

See Also

Related bills identified by Library of Congress staff.
H.R. 297: NICS Improvement Act of 2007 (Status: Introduced)

Other Bills with the Same Title

The list below shows legislation in this and previous sessions of Congress that had the same title as this bill. Note that bills may have multiple titles. Often bills are incorporated into other omnibus bills, and you may be able to track the status of provisions of this bill by looking for an omnibus bill below.
107<SUP>th</SUP> Congress: H.R. 4757: Our Lady of Peace Act (Status: Passed House)
108<SUP>th</SUP> Congress: H.R. 3237: NICS Improvement Act (Status: Dead)
109<SUP>th</SUP> Congress: H.R. 1415: NICS Improvement Act (Status: Dead)
110<SUP>th</SUP> Congress: S. 2084: School Safety Enhancements Act (Status: Scheduled for Debate)
110<SUP>th</SUP> Congress: H.R. 297: NICS Improvement Act (Status: Introduced)


</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD class=maintabstripbottom colSpan=5></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2640

Tn...Andy 12-20-2007 02:10 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Don't WORRY.....Rudi will be here to help !

http://www.gunowners.org/pres08/giuliani01.jpg


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-   -   Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage (http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=214182)

Juristic Person 12-20-2007 02:19 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahlil Gibran (Post 882765)
Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:00pm EST

By Thomas Ferraro

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Congress, prodded by the deadliest shooting rampage in modern American history, passed legislation on Wednesday designed to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill.

Without objection, the Senate and House of Representatives approved the measure, which would bolster background checks for gun buyers, and sent it to President George W. Bush to sign.

The measure would be the first major new gun-control law in more than a decade. It was drafted after a deranged gunman killed himself and 32 others in April at Virginia Tech university.

The product of months of talks, the bill was finally agreed to as lawmakers prepared to wrap up their work for the year and head home for the holidays.

"Together, we have crafted a bill that will prevent gun violence, but maintain the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens" to bear arms, said Democratic Rep. Carolyn McCarthy of New York, a chief sponsor of the bill. Her husband was killed and son injured in 1993 when a gunman opened fire on a train.

The 4 million-member National Rifle Association, which has helped stop numerous gun-control bills as one of the nation's most powerful pro-gun lobbying groups, backed this one.

"This is good public policy," said NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam.

Americans are among the world's most heavily armed people, and the country has one of the world's highest murder rates.

There are an estimated 250 million privately owned guns in the United States, which has a population of about 300 million. About 30,000 people a year die from gun wounds.

Congress has long been reluctant to tackle the politically explosive issue of gun control. But it did so after it was disclosed that the Virginia Tech gunman had once been deemed by a judge to be dangerous and the information never reached a background check system for gun buyers.

The legislation would provide financial incentives for states to provide mental health and criminal records to a database used for federal background checks on gun buyers.

UPDATING DATABASE

The 1968 Gun Control Act prohibits anyone found by a court to be "a mental defective" from possessing a gun. It also bars felons, fugitives, drug addicts and wife beaters.

But because of state privacy laws and fiscal restraints, most states have failed to fully report such records to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System.

McCarthy said: "Today, we are one step closer to making sure the National Instant Background Check System does what it was it was designed to do -- keep guns out of the hands of convicted felons, individuals subjected to restraining orders, those charged with domestic violence and individuals deemed mentally ill by a court of law."

The House initially passed such a bill in June. But the Senate refused to go along with it until a few changes were made. One would require the government to pay legal fees if a person who claims to have been wrongly listed in the background system wins an appeal.

Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy, a Vermont Democrat and a sponsor of the bill, said: "Nothing can bring back the lives tragically lost at Virginia Tech, and no legislation can be a panacea, but the bill we pass today will begin to repair and restore our faith in the NICS system and may help prevent similar tragedies in the future."

:confused_ma: Forget about going for Marriage Counseling now or admiting you smoked that joint in college.
Hey KG,

Remember when, awhile back, you posted that anyone who supports the "official story" on 9/11 - has a mental illness?

In light of that, wouldn't the people who passed this bill essentially be disarming themselves?

...in that respect (government passing a bill to disarm government), maybe this isn't such a bad thing!

Kahlil Gibran 12-20-2007 03:07 PM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juristic Person (Post 883860)
Hey KG,

Remember when, awhile back, you posted that anyone who supports the "official story" on 9/11 - has a mental illness?
http://goldismoney.info/forums/showp...&postcount=273

Here you are hijacking my Gun Bill thread with your 9-11 shit. PatColo nailed you with his latest post. Nailed you. Follow the link.

:hahaha:

sluggo 12-21-2007 11:47 AM
Re: Senate passes gun bill in response to rampage
 
The GOA responds, and they are not happy.

Quote:
"To me, this is the best Christmas present I could ever receive" -- Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY), CBS News, December 20, 2007


Thursday, December 20, 2007

Gun Owners of America and its supporters took a knife in the back yesterday, as Senator Chuck Schumer (D-NY) out-smarted his congressional opposition into agreeing on a so-called "compromise" on HR 2640 -- a bill which now goes to the President's desk.

The bill -- known as the Veterans Disarmament Act to its opponents -- is being praised by the National Rifle Association and the Brady Campaign.

The Brady Bunch crowed "Victory! U.S. Congress Strengthens Brady Background Check System." The NRA stated that last minute changes to the McCarthy bill made a "good bill even better [and that] the end product is a win for American gun owners."

But Gun Owners of America has issued public statements decrying this legislation.

The core of the bill's problems is section 101(c)(1)(C), which makes you a "prohibited person" on the basis of a "medical finding of disability," so long as a veteran had an "opportunity" for some sort of "hearing" before some "lawful authority" (other than a court). Presumably, this "lawful authority" could even be the psychiatrist himself.

Note that unlike with an accused murderer, the hearing doesn't have to occur. The "lawful authority" doesn't have to be unbiased. The veteran is not necessarily entitled to an attorney -- much less an attorney financed by the government.

So what do the proponents have to say about this?

ARGUMENT: The Veterans Disarmament Act creates new avenues for prohibited persons to seek restoration of their gun rights.

ANSWER: What the bill does is to lock in -- statutorily -- huge numbers of additional law-abiding Americans who will now be denied the right to own a firearm.

And then it "graciously" allows these newly disarmed Americans to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a long-shot chance to regain the gun rights this very bill takes away from them.

More to the point, what minimal gains were granted by the "right hand" are taken away by the "left." Section 105 provides a process for some Americans diagnosed with so-called mental disabilities to get their rights restored in the state where they live. But then, in subsection (a)(2), the bill stipulates that such relief may occur only if "the person will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the GRANTING OF THE RELIEF WOULD NOT BE CONTRARY TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST." (Emphasis added.)

Um, doesn't this language sound similar to those state codes (like California's) that have "may issue" concealed carry laws -- where citizens "technically" have the right to carry, but state law only says that sheriffs MAY ISSUE them a permit to carry? When given such leeway, those sheriffs usually don't grant the permits!

Prediction: liberal states -- the same states that took these people's rights away -- will treat almost every person who has been illegitimately denied as a danger to society and claim that granting relief would be "contrary to the public interest."

Let's make one thing clear: the efforts begun during the Clinton Presidency to disarm battle-scarred veterans -- promoted by the Brady Anti-Gun Campaign -- is illegal and morally reprehensible.

But section 101(c)(1)(C) of HR 2640 would rubber-stamp those illegal actions. Over 140,000 law-abiding veterans would be statutorily barred from possessing firearms.

True, they can hire a lawyer and beg the agency that took their rights away to voluntarily give them back. But the agency doesn't have to do anything but sit on its hands. And, after 365 days of inaction, guess what happens? The newly disarmed veteran can spend thousands of additional dollars to sue. And, as the plaintiff, the wrongly disarmed veteran has the burden of proof.

Language proposed by GOA would have automatically restored a veteran's gun rights if the agency sat on its hands for a year. Unfortunately, the GOA amendment was not included.

The Veterans Disarmament Act passed the Senate and the House yesterday -- both times WITHOUT A RECORDED VOTE. That is, the bill passed by Unanimous Consent, and was then transmitted to the White House.

Long-time GOA activists will remember that a similar "compromise" deal helped the original Brady Law get passed. In 1993, there were only two or three senators on the floor of that chamber who used a Unanimous Consent agreement (with no recorded vote) to send the Brady bill to President Clinton -- at a time when most legislators had already left town for their Thanksgiving Break.

Gun owners can go to http://www.gunowners.org/news/nws9402.htm to read about how this betrayal occurred 14 years ago.

With your help, Gun Owners of America has done a yeoman's job of fighting gun control over the years, considering the limited resources that we have. Together, we were able to buck the Brady Campaign/NRA coalition in 1999 (after the Columbine massacre) and were able to defeat the gun control that was proposed in the wake of that shooting.

Yesterday, we were not so lucky. But we are not going to go away. GOA wants to repeal the gun-free zones that disarm law-abiding Americans and repeal the other gun restrictions that are on the books. That is the answer to Virginia Tech. Unfortunately, the House and Senate chose the path of imposing more gun control.

So our appeal to you is this -- please help us to grow this coming year. Please help us to get more members and activists. If you add $10 to your membership renewal this year, we can reach new gun owners in the mail and tell them about GOA.

Please urge your friends to join GOA... and, at the very least, make sure they sign up for our free e-mail alerts so that we can mobilize more gun owners than ever before!


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